elderberrywine | A quick public announcement.

A quick public announcement.

From today on, anything posted in this journal will be mirrored over on GreatJournal. Apparently, in amazingly fortuitous timing (HP people should be wandering back any day now), LJ has decided that any FICTIONAL depiction of underaged characters engaged in sexual activity is smut and is not to be allowed.

Dang, I should have known Pippin was trouble.

Their announcement (not that it shows up in LJ news, of course) may be found here. There is some initial faux legal blathering, but eventually they have to admit that it is not actually illegal per se, but obscene, and seemingly they know it when they see it. I am not comforted.

http://community.livejournal.com/lj_biz/241182.html?page=9#comments

My GJ account is here: http://elderberrywine.greatestjournal.com/

Many thanks to

mirabellawotr for the heads up, and see you on the other side!

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*eyeroll* GAWD. It'll never end, will it?

And timing it right after that permanent account sale was especially cunning of them, don't you think?

Well, you know it will only be a matter of time until they get around to banning the fictional m/m (Lawsy! Ain't that illegal in these parts? And they aren't even human!) so it's best to start packing the bags, so to speak.

Very true, there. Nice. That REALLY makes me trust. *cocks an eyebrow*

Especially fine after they claimed they were actually not at ALL considering banning ANY sort of fanfic.

Except, of course, where they obviously were.

Gotcha, suckers!

I can *almost agree* with the HP angle of fanfic; JKR herself has come out, approving of the more 'kid's stuff', but could technically sick lawyers on people who REALLY slash 'em up. LJ could be held liable, I'm sure--somehow.
As for anything else? Lol, try me. ;)

JKR herself has come out, approving of the more 'kid's stuff', but could technically sick lawyers on people who REALLY slash 'em up. Heh - if she didn't have a life, I guess. Seriously, can you imagine what a full-time occupation that would be?

Here is where I'm glad that my fandom's author is long deceased (joined the choir invisible, so to speak). I don't think the heirs are quite as fervent as the Original Authors about this sort of thing.

So by "underaged" do they mean 18? or 33? ;)

There seemed to actually be considerable debate on that point, since under-age of course means a different age in different locations. But apparently they have arbitrarily set themselves on 18. And, of course, since there is no actual law that actually applies to fictional characters, they have decided to stick with that age, totally off the top of their heads.

See, now, I'm worried about Shire Morns, since I'm convinced they are going to pro-rate hobbit ages. Since only Frodo was of age at the beginning of the series, and Sam was (quick calculation here) 13 in human years (!!!) apparently I am OMGBANNED! And don't even get me started on M/P. :D

My, aren't I decadent? *basks in perviness*

Your pervy decadence is precisely why I DOWNLOAD all your stories *eg* See if they come audit my Harddrive!

Hee! And I have possibly even mentioned bodily fluids, which appears to be a real sticking point with what'shisname, Barak. (Sounds like a Klingon to me. And not the good kind.)

*is not at all repentant*

But thanks so much, m'dear! *mwah!*

Everyone should really go over there, some of the comments are hysterical! Uhm, anyone heard of "Romeo & Juliet?"

Yes, I was loving that. Seems that Romeo and Juliet escapes the banhammer solely because Shakespeare failed to mention them exchanging bodily fluids.

Man. Talk about your desperately twisted logic.

Ah. The other shoe. I was wondering when we'd hear it drop.

I suspect it's going to be a matter of "guilty upon accusation", as they clear 6Apart's turf of anything they consider objectionable or unprofitable. And anyone who's read any history at all knows what kind of behavior that brings.

I'm over at GJ, too, and so far I'm the only Xylohypha I've met, so that's me. See you there.

*runs off to check*

Yep, we're hooked up over there.

Their actions in the last few months are beginning to set an ugly pattern, I'm afraid. I don't think there's much doubt about them trying to position themselves for an IPO. And fanfic can be such a dubious asset, you know. Hard to sell ads on those slash sites.

Welllll, depends on what the ads are for, I suppose. *evil grin*

Life in the commercial world. Man, oh, man.

Well, there is that, I guess. One would think the penile enlargement and Viagra boys would be in hog heaven there. Of course, there is that annoying fact that most of the readership is female.

Life's little ironies. Gotta love them. ;D

Their latest attempt to explain themselves is here (http://community.livejournal.com/lj_biz/241428.html). I don't think you have anything to worry about. Even people who do have something to worry about probably don't have anything to worry about, as LJ would have to receive an abuse report before they even looked at a journal. In short, SNAFU.

I would feel more confident that that was the case if 500+ accounts hadn't been deleted virtually overnight the last time. And then the cries of "Oopsies! Our Bad! We just totally screwed up!"

And meanwhile the material on your LJ is gone without notice.

Clearly they are having difficulty in differentiating between the terms "illegal" (having factual basis in the body of law) and "obscene" (as in the eye of the beholder). And even though my LJ is certainly very small potatoes, and highly unlikely to be targeted, still, the influence certain conservative groups have over LJ, and their perceived need to spiff themselves up for potential buyers, is really beginning to make me feel unwelcome.

So far, I have no idea who the owners of GJ, or Insane Journal for that matter, are. And I would like to keep it that way. I expect them to act as a public utility, much like the phone company, or the postal service. Neither of them seems to feel the need to censor my use of their service, which is as it should be.

Of course, I'm probably more worried since I've been rather lax about backing up what I've put out on LJ, and that is entirely my fault.

You're probably quite right, you know, but their manipulativeness and cynicism is really starting to annoy me. Bah.

It annoys me, too, but it was the din of fandom reaction the last time that almost made me decide not to buy a permanent account. I had to remind myself that this is not a barricade I wish to mount. I came close to being swayed, but not close enough.

Part of the problem, as you say, is SA's confusion about what is 'illegal' and what is 'obscene'. Unfortunately, obscenity is illegal, if someone wishes to make it so. And given how subjective the definition is, the victim has little recourse.

GJ and IJ have no interest in censorship yet.

Unfortunately, obscenity is illegal, if someone wishes to make it so. And given how subjective the definition is, the victim has little recourse.

Except for the fact that even the Supreme Court, reactionary a bunch as they are, has declined to judge fiction in that manner. But the issue isn't really what is illegal. That's just the shield they are trying to hide behind, even if it is proving to be a mere smokescreen.

It's really more a matter of their being a private company, not a common carrier, and being able to rule as they like regarding what their customers post. I just wish they'd say so, rather than trying to pretend their hand is being forced. Absolute rubbish.

GJ and IJ have no interest in censorship yet.

Indeed. But, with any luck, the precautionary tale of how LJ Lost It may serve as a horrible example to them. Actually, I'm afraid that it really boils down to whether or not their owners (and I have no idea who they are) decide to go public or not.

It just amazes me that there are those who think that a tale of fictional 17-year olds having sex is the worst possible thing they could find on the intrawebs, when any minor amount of surfing could find such brain-searing horrors such as this: http://www.cmomb.com/

LJ has never been anything but arbitrary, badly organised, and incapable of communicating with their users. It remains to be seen what this means for the average LJer; it also remains to be proven that slash doesn't sell (if that's really what's at stake here). It didn't take the publishing industry long to move into the adult manga market when only a few years earlier people were worried about the influence of G-rated manga.

LJ wants to draw the line but they have no idea how to do it. They haven't followed the route that FFnet took in 2002 -- even though they might have done -- nor the route of Photobucket. LJ's TOS now are pretty much what they were in 2003 -- subject to interpretation. I'm not sure if they could ever be other than that.

If I wanted a backup journal -- except, well, I already have one :D -- I'd create a private LJ rather than go to GJ or IJ. LJ depends on tattle-tales, just as Photobucket does. If Yahoo started to restrict what I could post on my website -- that would really worry me.

Thanks very much for this enlightening piece of news -- I wasn't aware of it. It does appear that LJ are developing a more corporate type of mentality, and I agree it's impossible to predict just what their next target of unacceptability might be :-/

I too am over at GJ, at the Woody End (any puns definitely intended!):

http://lyrastar77.greatestjournal.com/

Hope you are well & not too hot or drowned out by monsoon-style rains! :-)

~Lyra

Hey, hi there! Adding you over at LJ.

Yes, they managed to tuck it well away. Far as I know, it's not showing up at lj news yet. And of course, most of the HP people are gone right now... Wow. Talk about your coincidences! *w*

Not bad here, actually, at least for summer. If it just wasn't so scarily dry. October, our typically high fire danger month, is going to be especially scary this year. :(

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